Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Montgomery High School (Santa Rosa, California)
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- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was Keep. Carlossuarez46 17:39, 10 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Montgomery High School (Santa Rosa, California) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log)
Holds a Notability tag since January, and the only notable piece of information is that Tupac Shakur attended it, but that's not even verified. In fact, it also has a two-month-old Verifiability tag. The only source is the schools website. J-stan TalkContribs 01:02, 5 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Keep - It's a major high school (almost 200 students) and per long standing precedent and WP:OUTCOMES, high schools are notable. I see no reason for this is singled out for deletion. --Oakshade 02:12, 5 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- I believe the point bing made there is that a pattern is developing where Elementary and middle schools are being deleted in AfDs, but high schools are being kept, but it doesn't assert that Elementary and middle schools should be deleted, and high schools shouldn't. J-stan TalkContribs 02:26, 5 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- The point is about high schools. There was no mention about middle and elementary/primary schools. --Oakshade 03:46, 5 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Taken from WP:OUTCOMES#Education: "Schools are frequently nominated for deletion, but consensus is frequently not reached. Most of the approximately 270 school articles nominated for deletion in the eight months January to August 2005, resulted in no consensus, with fewer than 15% actually deleted. Most elementary and middle schools that don't claim notability are now getting deleted in AFD, with high schools being kept.". This doesn't say that High schools should be kept, but that they are being kept. J-stan TalkContribs 14:09, 5 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- My comment stands. I'm talking about WP:OUTCOMES as it relates to high schools. Don't know why you're so hung up on this. --Oakshade 16:12, 5 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- I'm not "hung up" on it, I'm just trying to make clear the point. WP:OUTCOMES doesn't specifically state that high schools should be kept, it's just saying that this is a pattern that is developing, it's not policy. You are entitled to your comment, but I'm saying that the point from WP:OUTCOMES isn't to be taken as a guideline or policy, it just states a fact. J-stan TalkContribs 16:27, 5 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- WP:OUTCOMES is intended to be a summary showing what Wikipedia consensus is on a variety of subjects. It is this broad consensus for retention of high school articles that such articles should be kept, accompanied by the specific claims of notability for this specific school, that constitute an extremely strong case for retention of this article, and of all other high school articles. Alansohn 16:35, 5 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Ah, I didn't think of that. Thank you! J-stan TalkContribs 16:43, 5 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Unfortunately, OUTCOMES doesn't cite specific discussions, so it is not possible to determine whether a) the consensus is that high schools should be kept because they are high schools or b) the consensus has been that specific articles brought before AfD that happen to be about high schools meet general notability criteria. And, of course, it is also impossible to determine whether this consensus is stronger than that for WP:N itself. Jakew 17:03, 5 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- I'm not "hung up" on it, I'm just trying to make clear the point. WP:OUTCOMES doesn't specifically state that high schools should be kept, it's just saying that this is a pattern that is developing, it's not policy. You are entitled to your comment, but I'm saying that the point from WP:OUTCOMES isn't to be taken as a guideline or policy, it just states a fact. J-stan TalkContribs 16:27, 5 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- My comment stands. I'm talking about WP:OUTCOMES as it relates to high schools. Don't know why you're so hung up on this. --Oakshade 16:12, 5 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Taken from WP:OUTCOMES#Education: "Schools are frequently nominated for deletion, but consensus is frequently not reached. Most of the approximately 270 school articles nominated for deletion in the eight months January to August 2005, resulted in no consensus, with fewer than 15% actually deleted. Most elementary and middle schools that don't claim notability are now getting deleted in AFD, with high schools being kept.". This doesn't say that High schools should be kept, but that they are being kept. J-stan TalkContribs 14:09, 5 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- The point is about high schools. There was no mention about middle and elementary/primary schools. --Oakshade 03:46, 5 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Delete no evidence of any notability. I believe WP:CSD#A7 may apply to this article.--SefringleTalk 03:04, 5 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Being a high school in itself is an assertion of notability. The Tupac Shakur attendance adds to it. --Oakshade 03:46, 5 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Yes, but is that verifiable? J-stan TalkContribs 14:10, 5 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- J-Stan, WP:CSD#A7 reads very clearly "This is distinct from questions of notability, verifiability and reliability of sources. If controversial, list the article at Articles for deletion instead." Besides, yes it is verifiable (Shakur biographies, school records, etc.). --Oakshade 16:16, 5 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Yes, but is that verifiable? J-stan TalkContribs 14:10, 5 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Strong Keep Precedent is clear that high school articles are notable and should be kept. In addition to multiple notable alumni, IB Diploma Programme participation, and California Distinguished School status, the school has been recognized by the Blue Ribbon Schools Program, the nation's highest recognition for a school. All of this is backed up by ample reliable and verifiable sources that meet and surpass the Wikipedia:Notability standard. It's amazing what can be accomplished in 15 minutes if your interest is to improve articles, rather than destroy them. Alansohn 04:43, 5 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Strong Keep per research done by Alansohn, though I can't verify that Tupac actually attended the school. Zagalejo 06:36, 5 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Schools-related deletions. -- John Vandenberg 04:55, 5 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of California-related deletions. -- John Vandenberg 04:55, 5 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Keep. Blue Ribbon Award confers additional notability. Even if the school were not notable, the best solution would have been to merge it with the city/town/school district since information about a community's education system is perfectly relevant to coverage of the place. Sjakkalle (Check!) 10:02, 5 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Delete. No evidence of the substantial coverage in reliable 3rd party sources required by WP:N. Sources in the article are problematic. Ref 3 doesn't even mention the subject of the article, violating WP:NOR, and the same appears to be true of ref 4. Refs 2 and 5 are absurdly trivial - just entries in a table. Refs 6 and 7 are trivial mention of the school in another context (see WP:NOTINHERITED), and ref 1 is too brief for an article. Jakew 11:02, 5 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Keep per Alansohn. -- DS1953 talk 13:38, 5 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Keep — Notable. — RJH (talk) 15:45, 5 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Keep we make common outcomes y what we do here--its just a summary of afd decisions. In the case of high schools, i think all of them are potentially notable, and the best policy to avoid these debates is to keep the articles, and work on improving them. Keep enough times, and it will be the unquestioned common outcome. I used to think we should try to differentiate, but i've become convinced that these are all mostly notable if enough work were done, and that removing the 10% of less notable ones isnt worth the effort. consensus can change. I think it is changing.DGG (talk) 04:24, 9 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Keep as rewritten. If the notability tag ever pops up again, please do remove it as the current article clearly meets and exceeds WP:N standards. RFerreira 20:34, 9 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.