Obama supporters losing their faith?

Trident1 · Sep 25, 2010

Hot Mega said:
Yeah, everyone on the street knows "everything" every candidate who runs for POTUS. I suppose that's why they campaign...

But even if you're granted that fantasy...Obama announced his candidacy in Jan or Feb of '07 and was elected in Nov of '08...that's almost 2 years of campaigning for an office. Fucking Houdini couldn't hide who he was and what he was about for that long.

Give it up man....sheesh.

"Centrist"?:ban2: Oh...Billo the clown says he's a "Centrist" too.:1orglaugh

But you see the false dichotomy...The fact that the press covered the hell out of this "unknown" (doing their jobs) has to try and exist in the same reality of the press covering the hell out of this "unknown" (creating Obama).

Give it up? Never. Obama became a houselhold name in '07 and '08. Most didn't know who he was in '04.

Yes I am a Centrist. Right now I'm directing criticism towards those in office............the Douchecrats. Develop a thicker skin if you don't like it.

You lefties only know how to dole it out. You seriously can't take criticism. It's almost as if you're surprised there are people who do not like the left's policies. Guess what guys, not everyone thinks the way you do. That's because this country is best when governed from a slightly right of center track. Come November the voters will begin the correction. Your experiment to take this country towards some bizarro far leftist tangeant has failed.

Baill Inneraora · Sep 25, 2010

Trident1 said:
Yes I am a Centrist.

:surprise:

Not even close.

Hot Mega · Sep 26, 2010

Trident1 said:
Give it up? Never.

Your choice...feel free to keep making a fool of yourself.

Trident1 said:
Obama became a houselhold name in '07 and '08. Most didn't know who he was in '04.

Therefore what?? Only those who are "household" names (whatever that means in an election) before they run should be voted for?? I'm not sure what you're point is.. It's not like he just appeared out of nowhere almost 2 years before he was elected. He held a public office before he won the presidency and prior to that he held another public office. But in your mind..the media just got together one day in '07 (I guess) and said, "hey, here's an idea...let's make this guy named Obama a "household" name.":clown::yahoo::conehead:

But most people didn't know who he was in '04? Most like whom? The people who mattered and made him their standard bearer (the Demo Caucus) apparently knew enough about him to have him deliver the keynote speech at their convention. Unknown "nobodies" don't get to do that in case you're wondering.

What is your point?? Unless you're a vice president (maybe) you're not a "household" name to the majority of Americans anyway. Again, that's what campaigns are for.

Trident1 said:
Yes I am a Centrist.

And I'm Bill Gates.

Trident1 said:
Develop a thicker skin if you don't like it.

On the contrary...I love watching you make a fool of yourself with straw man argument after straw man argument. It's pretty entertaining watching your "hollow points" get shot full of holes.

D-rock · Sep 26, 2010

Trident1 said:
Yes I am a Centrist.

:rofl2:

Somebody needs to save that quote.

Trident1 · Sep 26, 2010

Hot Mega said:
Your choice...feel free to keep making a fool of yourself.

Therefore what?? Only those who are "household" names (whatever that means in an election) before they run should be voted for?? I'm not sure what you're point is.. It's not like he just appeared out of nowhere almost 2 years before he was elected. He held a public office before he won the presidency and prior to that he held another public office. But in your mind..the media just got together one day in '07 (I guess) and said, "hey, here's an idea...let's make this guy named Obama a "household" name.":clown::yahoo::conehead:

But most people didn't know who he was in '04? Most like whom? The people who mattered and made him their standard bearer (the Demo Caucus) apparently knew enough about him to have him deliver the keynote speech at their convention. Unknown "nobodies" don't get to do that in case you're wondering.

What is your point?? Unless you're a vice president (maybe) you're not a "household" name to the majority of Americans anyway. Again, that's what campaigns are for.

And I'm Bill Gates.

On the contrary...I love watching you make a fool of yourself with straw man argument after straw man argument. It's pretty entertaining watching your "hollow points" get shot full of holes.

Yes I'll keep prodding at the Obama messiah complex you guys have cultivated.
Straw man argument? Hardly. None of you can even say enough to save this President from being awarded the title "Malaise King".

Obama was a complete unknown to most of his supporters until '07. By supporters I don't mean volunteers I mean voters.

I take it to be a Centrist you people want me to blindly support Obama.

Hot Mega · Sep 26, 2010

Trident1 said:
Obama was a complete unknown to most of his supporters until '07. By supporters I don't mean volunteers I mean voters.

How many presidential candidates were not a "complete unknown" prior to their run for office?

There is so much straw in that point you could make a hundred scarecrows.

You really can't even make the case that Obama was an unknown to most of his supporters as he was introduced to the majority of them in '04 at the DNC...so you lose again "Try...":1orglaugh

Where was GWB or Bill Clinton on the national scene 4 years before they announced their candidacies??? They sure as hell weren't delivering keynote speeches to their entire party at their conventions.

vodkazvictim · Sep 26, 2010

Hot Mega said:
"Try..."

lmao

titsrock · Sep 26, 2010

Hot Mega said:
But you see the false dichotomy...The fact that the press covered the hell out of this "unknown" (doing their jobs) has to try and exist in the same reality of the press covering the hell out of this "unknown" (creating Obama).

If by unknown our Centrist friend actually meant "never was mentioned or shown on FixedNoise before 2007" then I would've agreed with that :facepalm:

Trident1 · Sep 26, 2010

So all you knew Obama as well in '04 as you do now. Yeah riiiiiiiiiiiiiight.

Hot Mega · Sep 26, 2010

Trident1 said:
So all you knew Obama as well in '04 as you do now. Yeah riiiiiiiiiiiiiight.

Not that it would matter since most of the people who voted for Clinton in '92 didn't know him as well in '88 nor did most of the people who voted for GWB in '00 know him as well in '96.

But assuming I didn't know him as well in '04 as I did in '07...you don't think nearly 2 years is enough time for the guy to state his case?

I mean, he's not trying to convince me to sleep with him...just vote for his ideas.

How fucking long does that take?

monicasilver · Sep 26, 2010

Hot Mega said:
I'm not Catholic but I once attended a Catholic school. I have a cousin born into a Catholic family and raised as one who is non denom now...(as many are nowadays). Point being...what someone is exposed to as a child under their parent's guidance doesn't necessarily bear out on what they become as an adult. All of his Muslim references are erstwhile...none contemporary.

I might add...it's probably true most atheists and agnostics were born into some religious family tradition too.

Being a member of a church for 20 years is one thing...I suppose I'm still technically member of the church I attended as a kid but haven't set foot in it in decades.

Mentor? To what degree? If Obama was one of Wright's Deacons...that would be one thing....but merely being another parishioner, one of thousands mentored by Wright as the head of their church....meh..:dunno:

Although you do make your points wayyy more coherently than I'm used here on the subject of Obama....

My point is that we agree on (95%...ok I made up the percentage) of the "Obama Religion" nonsense that is being kicked around.

I think the two point of contention are:

1. I don't give any president a pass. If you pardon the expression, this is his cross to carry. It is political flack he needs to handle. As I said, I give him a C - on his handling of the issue. If he was Islamic (which I do not think he is) I would not car. I also don't believe he is a terrorist and I don't take people serious who say they believe that.

2. Re: Wright being a mentor of Obama: In "Dreams of my Father", Obama says as much. He has a number of Wright quotes in the book. Nobody is perfect. This is one of Obama's shortcommings. This is part of his C- (I still can't believe nobody has asked me to grade him on this!), he has waffled and flipped here. It doesn't make him the antichrist (I'll duck as those from the right throw things at me), but it does make him very human (now I'll duck as stuff gets thrown from the left).

monicasilver · Sep 26, 2010

Hot Mega said:
Not that it would matter since most of the people who voted for Clinton in '92 didn't know him as well in '88 nor did most of the people who voted for GWB in '00 know him as well in '96.

But assuming I didn't know him as well in '04 as I did in '07...you don't think nearly 2 years is enough time for the guy to state his case?

I mean, he's not trying to convince me to sleep with him...just vote for his ideas.

How fucking long does that take?

I'd sleep with him.:nanner:

Hot Mega · Sep 26, 2010

monicasilver said:
My point is that we agree on (95%...ok I made up the percentage) of the "Obama Religion" nonsense that is being kicked around.

I think the two point of contention are:

1. I don't give any president a pass. If you pardon the expression, this is his cross to carry. It is political flack he needs to handle. As I said, I give him a C - on his handling of the issue. If he was Islamic (which I do not think he is) I would not car. I also don't believe he is a terrorist and I don't take people serious who say they believe that.

How else do you handle it beyond how he's handled it?? He hasn't avoided the issue and he's spoken quite candidly about it even knowing his political opponents would twist his every word in association with his name to gin up the segment of our electorate too ignorant to understand a difference.

When the question arises about his religion what else can he say beyond the fact that he's a Christian and recount some of the things that make him a Christian??

I give him an A+ for how he's handled it. How many candidates would have been "dodgy" and tried all kinds of stunts and said all kinds of things in order to avoid the appearance and association..including perhaps impugning Islam in the process?

To me it's this simple, if a person really cares about this stuff in their president then the should reasonably know and objectively appraise all the facts. When you know all the facts and objectively appraise them you should know he's not a Muslim. I'm not sure how a person can care or claim to care about issues like this but lack the integrity in their position to care about the facts. Actually I do know, they're simply political hacks.

monicasilver said:
2. Re: Wright being a mentor of Obama: In "Dreams of my Father", Obama says as much. He has a number of Wright quotes in the book. Nobody is perfect. This is one of Obama's shortcommings. This is part of his C- (I still can't believe nobody has asked me to grade him on this!), he has waffled and flipped here. It doesn't make him the antichrist (I'll duck as those from the right throw things at me), but it does make him very human (now I'll duck as stuff gets thrown from the left).

Now we actually have something we can deal with tangibly. What quotes did Obama use from Wright? Were they inflammatory quotes on the order Wright was criticized for? Or were they quotes that bely the possible reasonableness in Wright Obama would have likely gravitated to?

I give him lower marks for how he handled this issue simply because there's no easy way to handle an issue like this. That said he handled it the best way it could be handled. Simply concluding Obama must have known everything Wright has said..especially when there's no evidence beyond 2001 that Wright made inflammatory remarks just because he's known him for 20 or so years is pretty naive IMO.

The fact is, when Obama was made aware of the things Wright has said..he repudiated them. He didn't immediately throw Wright under the bus as if he didn't know the guy for 20 years. Obama was criticized almost equally for being too critical of Wright and not critical enough..it was a no win for him. Although I think he handled it like a normal human being would have and not a politician. When Wright continued on, Obama disassociated himself from Wright altogether. What more could he have done to handle that better?

I would venture a guess we ALL know people, have close associates and even relatives who we've sat and listened to make ridiculous claims and make inflammatory statements. I presume if we're reasonable we disagree with them at the time but realize that statement or statements don't define them enough for us to completely disassociate from them...until maybe they cross some line.

roronoa3000 · Sep 26, 2010

monicasilver said:
I'd sleep with him.:nanner:

Who wouldn't!!?

....oh, Trident and Georges.

georges · Sep 26, 2010

roronoa3000 said:
Who wouldn't!!?

....oh, Trident and Georges.

let me ask you a question, do you think kissing obama's ass regarding the fact that he has done nothing stellar as president and the fact that he got a nobel prize for nothing, is great and clever???? :facepalm:

:why:
You sound like most of these leftist european journalists and democrat supporters who made a big fucking deal "obama does this, obama does that." Yeah, Obama is your president, but has unemployment rate gone down? No. Has criminality in the state where he was a senator and in other states gone down too? No. Has deficit been reduced? No, again.You can make a shiny portrait of Obama like most of the leftists do, but reality will always catch him as well as his voters. Just look at the people who are in his administration, pelosi who is a dumbshit cunt, the clinton bitch who is trying to copy paste the former failed foreign policy when her husband was a president, emamnuel rahm, that pathetic trash and other people that are composing the obama administration. I am not gonna be surprised if something bad happens to his administration.

monicasilver · Sep 27, 2010

Hot Mega said:
How else do you handle it beyond how he's handled it?? He hasn't avoided the issue and he's spoken quite candidly about it even knowing his political opponents would twist his every word in association with his name to gin up the segment of our electorate too ignorant to understand a difference.

When the question arises about his religion what else can he say beyond the fact that he's a Christian and recount some of the things that make him a Christian??

I give him an A+ for how he's handled it. How many candidates would have been "dodgy" and tried all kinds of stunts and said all kinds of things in order to avoid the appearance and association..including perhaps impugning Islam in the process?

To me it's this simple, if a person really cares about this stuff in their president then the should reasonably know and objectively appraise all the facts. When you know all the facts and objectively appraise them you should know he's not a Muslim. I'm not sure how a person can care or claim to care about issues like this but lack the integrity in their position to care about the facts. Actually I do know, they're simply political hacks.

Now we actually have something we can deal with tangibly. What quotes did Obama use from Wright? Were they inflammatory quotes on the order Wright was criticized for? Or were they quotes that bely the possible reasonableness in Wright Obama would have likely gravitated to?

I give him lower marks for how he handled this issue simply because there's no easy way to handle an issue like this. That said he handled it the best way it could be handled. Simply concluding Obama must have known everything Wright has said..especially when there's no evidence beyond 2001 that Wright made inflammatory remarks just because he's known him for 20 or so years is pretty naive IMO.

The fact is, when Obama was made aware of the things Wright has said..he repudiated them. He didn't immediately throw Wright under the bus as if he didn't know the guy for 20 years. Obama was criticized almost equally for being too critical of Wright and not critical enough..it was a no win for him. Although I think he handled it like a normal human being would have and not a politician. When Wright continued on, Obama disassociated himself from Wright altogether. What more could he have done to handle that better?

I would venture a guess we ALL know people, have close associates and even relatives who we've sat and listened to make ridiculous claims and make inflammatory statements. I presume if we're reasonable we disagree with them at the time but realize that statement or statements don't define them enough for us to completely disassociate from them...until maybe they cross some line.

Cool. We're on the same page.

monicasilver · Sep 29, 2010

Hot Mega said:
I give him an A+ for how he's handled it. How many candidates would have been "dodgy" and tried all kinds of stunts and said all kinds of things in order to avoid the appearance and association..including perhaps impugning Islam in the process?

This is where we will have to agree to disagree. He gets a C- in the Monica rating system. He flip flopped on his support, involvement, and duration of the relationship. Then when the issue didn't go away, he finally owned up.
You are right though, I don't think he ever impugned Islam in any way.

I understand how you would come to your rating, but I think it is through rose colored glasses.

I found the guy I am going to vote for. President Bartlett!

Hot Mega · Sep 29, 2010

monicasilver said:
This is where we will have to agree to disagree. He gets a C- in the Monica rating system. He flip flopped on his support, involvement, and duration of the relationship. Then when the issue didn't go away, he finally owned up.
You are right though, I don't think he ever impugned Islam in any way.

I understand how you would come to your rating, but I think it is through rose colored glasses.

I found the guy I am going to vote for. President Bartlett!

Fair enough. I just think you and I either watched a different movie or one of us stepped out for popcorn on a few of the scenes.

I don't particularly remember some flip flop or inconsistency. He initially addressed the issue while trying to prevent it from being what his opponents wanted...it turning into the issue. After all, Wright wasn't on the ballot.

I recall Wright's past statements continuing to drivel out as soon as Obama would address one. He eventually addressed it in one, catch all speech to which he criticized Wright but went on to say he said he could no more disown Wright than his grandmother or something...

Wright then subsequently made some other contentious statement and that's when Obama rightfully severed ties with him altogether...ending the issue.

If that's the flip...then I guess...but it was the reasonable thing to do in order to keep the nothing issue from dominating an election when the country is heading up shit creek.

Trident1 · Sep 29, 2010

Obama got a Nobel because he was 50/50 mix, in other words he was the first President not purely white. The Nobel committee apparently in a headrush of Liberal drunkedness gave it to him as a Congratulatory prize. The Nobel Committee felt smug and warm after. The Nobel crap is just crap. After giving it to Arafat, Carter and Obama it has the equivalent meaning to a Jack in the Box prize.

Hot Mega · Sep 29, 2010

Trident1 said:
Obama got a Nobel because he was 50/50 mix, in other words he was the first President not purely white. The Nobel committee apparently in a headrush of Liberal drunkedness gave it to him as a Congratulatory prize.

"for his extraordinary efforts to strengthen international diplomacy and cooperation between peoples."

That's what the committee concluded.:2 cents:

Trident1 said:
The Nobel Committee felt smug and warm after. The Nobel crap is just crap. After giving it to Arafat, Carter and Obama it has the equivalent meaning to a Jack in the Box prize.

Okay...so the next you are awarded it..turn it down.:dunno:

Obama supporters losing their faith?

Trident1

Baill Inneraora

Hot Mega

D-rock

Trident1

Hot Mega

vodkazvictim

Why save the world, when you can rule it?

titsrock

Trident1

Hot Mega

monicasilver

monicasilver

Hot Mega

roronoa3000

Banned

georges

monicasilver

monicasilver

Hot Mega

Trident1

Hot Mega

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